GenN
29-05-03, 08:07 AM
Salaam
Ok, some of you may think i'm finally losing it but yesterday i was watching a documentary about the bermuda triangle, you know that place where many ships and planes are always mysteriously dissapearing and where possibly the ancient lost city of Atlantis sank.
Anyways what kept springing too my mind was a hadith i'd read somewhere some time ago. Can't remember exactly how it goes, its fairly long but there was a sahabi traveeling by sea for whatever reason (can't rememebr) and i thinkk there was some storm and their ship got lost at sea. I think they crashed somewhere an island which they did not recognise and there was this huge man in chained up (description of the man in the hadith) and the man said i am the dajjal and soon i will be released ...... . I can't rememeber how the shabai then managed to get back but when he narrated the incident to muhammed (sallalahualihiwaslaam) he (sallalahualihiwaslaam) confirmed that indeed it was the dajjal he had seen/met.
Can someone possibly find the exact hadith?
what do you guys think (any thoughts) the bermuda triangle is possibly where the dajjal is chained up at this moment....
and please no :banghead:
wa salaam
dour
29-05-03, 01:00 PM
Do not trust documentaries about the Bermuda triangle. They try to make it more mysterious than it actually is. Everyone likes a good mystery; the trouble is they alter the facts to make it so. In fact it has been known that sometimes these documentaries will report newspaper stories as fact when the paper made the facts up to sell their paper.
Hafiz
29-05-03, 02:22 PM
Wow, sounds very interesting.
I would also be interested in reading that hadith.
Revolution
29-05-03, 03:30 PM
salaams,
Salim said, "Abd Allah ibn 'Omar said, The Prophet stood up to address the people. He praised Allah as He deserved to be praised, then he spoke about the Dajjal: 'I warn you against him; there is no Prophet who has not warned his people against him even Noah warned his people against him. But I will tell you something which no other Prophet has told his people. You must know that the Dajjal is one-eyed, and Allah is not one-eyed.'"
oh i think this is the hadith you are looking for...
Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) once gathered the Muslims in the masjid and said: "I have kept you here because Tamim ad-Dari, a Christian man who has embraced Islam, told me something which agrees with what I have told you about the Dajjal. He told me that he had sailed in a ship with thirty men from Banu Lakham and Banu Judham. The waves tossed them about for a month, then they came near an island at sunset. They approached the island on the ship's rafts, and landed. They were met by a beast that was so hairy that they could not tell its front from its back. They said: 'Woe to you! What are you?' It said: 'I am al-Jassasah.' They said: 'What is al-Jassasah?' It said: 'O people, go to this man in the monastery, for he is very eager to know about you,’” Tamim said that when it named a person to us we were afraid lest it be a devil. Tamim said: "We quickly went to the monastery. There we found a huge man with his hands tied up to his neck and with iron shackles between his legs up to the ankles. We said: 'Woe to you, who are you?' It said: 'You will soon know about me. Tell me who you are.' We said: 'We are people from Arabia. We sailed on a ship, but the waves have been tossing us about for a month, and they brought us to your island, where we met a beast which was so hairy that we could not tell its front from its back. We said to it: 'Woe to you what are you?' She said: 'I am al-Jassasah.' We asked: 'What is al-Jassasah?' and it told us: 'Go to this man in the monastery, for he is very eager to know about you.' So we came to you quickly, fearing that it might be a devil.' The man said: 'Tell me about the date-palms of Beisan.' We said: 'What do you want to know about them'?' He said: 'I want to know whether these trees bear fruits or not.' We said 'Yes'. He said: 'Soon they will not bear fruits.' Then he said: 'Tell me about the lake of Tabariyah (in Palestine).' We said: 'What do you want to know about it?' He said: 'Is there water in it'?' We said: 'There is plenty of water in it.' He said: 'Soon it will become dry.' Then he said: 'Tell me about the spring of Zughar.' We asked: 'What do you want to know about it'?' He asked: 'Is there water in it, and does it irrigate the land'?' We said: 'Yes, there is plenty of water in it, and the people use it to irrigate the land.' Then he said: 'Tell me about the illiterate Prophet [Muhammad], what has he done?' We said: 'He has left Makkah and settled in Yathrib (later Madinah).' He said: 'Do the Arabs fight against him'?' We said 'Yes'. He said: 'How does he deal with them'?' So we told him that Prophet Muhammad had overcome the Arabs around him and that they had followed him. He asked: 'Has it really happened?' We said yes. He said: 'It is better for them that they follow him. Now I will tell you about myself. I am the Dajjal. I will soon be permitted to leave this place: I will emerge and travel about the Earth. In forty nights, I will pass through every town, except Makkah and Madinah, for these have been forbidden to me. Every time I try to enter either of them, I will be met by an angel bearing an unsheathed sword, who will prevent me from entering. There will be angels guarding them at every passage leading to them.'” (Muslim).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
note: There are variations of this hadith, some go into detail some are brief and some people say that this event didnt happen physically it was a vision that tammin ad-dari had.
Wallahu Alim...Time Will Tell.
Muawiyah1
29-05-03, 04:37 PM
Assalamualikum we are currently discussing this topic in CG forums. The Brothers and sisters there have raised interesting points regard this matter. You 'll also find ahadeeth which you are looking for regarding this issue .You can join us in the discussion. Just click here:
http://forums.clearguidance.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=13619&perpage=15&pagenumber=2
And also:
http://forums.clearguidance.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=17246
Frankly speaking i also believe that the Dajjal is locked up somewhere in the Bermuda triangle.It is an established fact that the 12 Imam of the Shi'ites is the Dajjal. (http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/azarinni/hum.htm) And many Shi'ite scholars in Iraq and elsewhere claim that they had invitations from this 12th Imam and when they went to visit him, they found that they were brought somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle in order to meet their 12 imam. They found him with a huge army of Jinns[could be shayteen] who took orders from him. wallahu Al'aam
sfvalley
29-05-03, 05:01 PM
'We are people from Arabia. We sailed on a ship, but the waves have been tossing us about for a month, and they brought us to your island, where we met a beast which was so hairy that we could not tell its front from its back.
wow, that is mighty fast sailing to get from arabia to the bermuda triangle in one month. Did they row really really fast?
forever
29-05-03, 05:07 PM
:eek: :confused: :banghead: :nervous:
Instead of discussing where the Dajjal is why dont we seek protection from Allah swt from Dajjal and pray that we are strong in iman incase he appears whilst we are alive.
Allah SWT knows best
baba
29-05-03, 05:57 PM
Perhaps there are some djinns in the Bermuda Triangle.
AbuMubarak
29-05-03, 06:03 PM
on a slightly different note, and being totally serious
when we read about ya'jooj and ma'jooj, do you ever reflect that they are still alive and hidden somewhere on earth?
and if you read the hadiths, they speak of all of the destruction that they will do when they are released
yes, we should seek refuge from dajjal, after every salat, and then some
but it is an intriguiging subject, the companions would ask the prophet often about ad-dajjal
forever
29-05-03, 07:03 PM
yes you are right it is an intriguing subject thats why if you note - if there is a talk intitled 'dajjal' the hereafter, yajuj and majuj, signs of judgement etc more people always turn up to search talks.
It is a shame we dont get that many people turning up to talks on hadith, prayer, fasting, zakat etc .
:confused: :crying:
Revolution
29-05-03, 07:24 PM
Did you know that some people think that the Biblical/Quranic Gog and Magog (Hajuj wa Mahjuj) are Russia and China ? Since these two nations have their unique culture and history almost shutout from the rest of the World. Their Military is fearsome and their manpower is massive - equally the infamous war of Armageddon mentioned in the Bible and Hadith according to some Christians will be fought when the Jews try to re-establish their 3rd Temple and it will start world war 3 as the Arabs/Muslims fight the Jews ... America and the West will support Israel whereas Russia and China will join in on the other side or for their own intrests - leading to the Final Showdown.
How much truth there is in these theories and prophecies Allah only knows but what we do know is that In the END the Deen of Allah will be Supreme. Allahu Akbar! The Final Victory will be for the Believers.
canute
29-05-03, 08:38 PM
Hmmm... Except the Chinese and Russians are too busy fighting Muslims or trying to erradicate the practice of Islam as we speak.
GenN
29-05-03, 09:10 PM
SalaamAnd many Shi'ite scholars in Iraq and elsewhere claim that they had invitations from this 12th Imam and when they went to visit him, they found that they were brought somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle in order to meet their 12 imam. They found him with a huge army of Jinns[could be shayteen] who took orders from him. wallahu Al'aam
Muwayiayh, i read through all the links you posted in that thread but could not find anything regarding the quote and ****te immams going to bermuda triangle. Could you please give me some links where more can be read. JKK
Wa salaam.
ClashCityRocker
29-05-03, 11:02 PM
salaams
i've always been interested in the Bermuda triangle for a long time. From having read stories as a child into adulthood, I can only conclude that there are some mysterious things in this world that we can't ever solve and which only Allah can know.
and yes i do believe the myth and curse of the Bermuda. as a muslim who believes in God's power and abilities, I also believe in UFOs, Jinn, ghosts, and even the mothman.
in fact I've seen several UFOs with my own eyes and have had some horrible encounters :torture: it is thought that there is a Jinn lurking in my house and sometimes at night I dont feel safe in bed.
wa'salaams
-CCR
forever
30-05-03, 05:47 PM
i believe in Jinns - Allah swt has told us about them in the Qur'an
But i dont believe in myths or superstitions - black cats, walking under ladders - its all nonesense! :banghead:
UFO's - Allah swt knows best but if there are any i dont think they would come to earth! :nonono:
Muawiyah1
02-06-03, 04:12 PM
GeNn, like i said before It is an established fact that Shi'ite 12th Imam is the Jewish Dajjal.
The Shiites believe that this imam of theirs is hidding somewhere and will come out from this hiding when the day of judgement is close. What is interesting to know is that several prominent medivial classical Shi'ite scholars from Iraq and Iran have stated in their works that they received invitations from their hiding imam, and when they accepted the invitation they found themselves in the presence of their imam/dajjal in a green island after they were being crossed from waves of oceans. They have described that this imam of theirs was surrounded by an army of jinns[could be shayateen] who took orders from him. And it was a complete different world where this imam resided. The description these classical shiite scholar gave of the location and of the island and of their travel account, best fit that to be somewhere in the Bermuda triangle,according to the shiites. These Shiites scholars who alleged to have received the invitation from their hidden imam are Sheikh Mufeed, Ishaq ibnu Yaqub etc. and you can find their accounts in the classical shiite work of Mafaatih al Jinaan,if i'm not mistaken.
And Clashcityrocker, can you give us your account of UFO experience if you dont mind.
seven
02-06-03, 04:49 PM
isn't shaytaans throne on the sea? i though the bermuda triangle was one possible location. i've heard rumours that people have seen snakes doing 'tawaaf' there
GenN
03-06-03, 07:50 AM
Salaam
Seven where did you get shaytaans throne bieng on the sea from? any hadith?
And muwawiyah PLEEEEEEEEEEEEase get me ref for your statment:
And many Shi'ite scholars in Iraq and elsewhere claim that they had invitations from this 12th Imam and when they went to visit him, they found that they were brought somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle in order to meet their 12 imam. They found him with a huge army of Jinns[could be shayteen] who took orders from him. wallahu Al'aam
I'd love to read up about that.
JKK
Oh and revoulution thanks, that was the hadith i was thinking about.
Wa salaam.
forever
03-06-03, 04:08 PM
ive heard that too - shaytaans throne is on the sea - im sure it is a hadith :confused: heard loads of people say it
maybe someone will know! :)
AbuMubarak
03-06-03, 04:10 PM
forever
there are many things that are said that are not true
i remember hearing, after you pray, fold your prayer rug or else shaytan will pray on it
thekid
03-06-03, 04:30 PM
as salaam alai kum
I like the one about the shaytan praying on your prayer rug. actually if you can get the shaytan to pray, it would be great. and that too on your prayer rug!!!!!!!!!:D
Revolution
03-06-03, 04:34 PM
lol@shaytan praying on your prayer rug.
People may think this is abit of a joke but it is said that there is not a single spot on this earth where Iblis has not prayed!
All that abadat gone to waste....in 1 moment of Pride and Haste. All that abadat yet forbidden from Paradise. Subhanallah.
thekid
04-06-03, 04:20 AM
As salaam alai kum
People may think this is abit of a joke but it is said that there is not a single spot on this earth where Iblis has not prayed!
From where did you get this bit of info?? Is there an authentic hadith about this??
Beware of weak and fabricated narrations attributed to the messenger of allaah.
forever
04-06-03, 10:28 AM
yep ive been told that too - folder the corner of your prayer mat when you not praying on it &if you not gonna put it away yet! :(
why are there so many fabrications?
:banghead:
ClashCityRocker
05-06-03, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Muawiyah1
And Clashcityrocker, can you give us your account of UFO experience if you dont mind.
it is horrible and I am not trying to kid you. I've had lots of surreal dreams/nightmares and every time I woke up I found marks and bruises on my body. It is horrible. I've experienced meeting Aliens, who were in the form of aliens but passed as angels, they claimed to be angels of Allah and they said the world will end someday and they said they were going to send Muslims and pious Christians and some other faithful followers to Heaven in spaceships. I experienced a horrible hairy creature that came into our house and attacked us and they tried to deface my copy of the Quran.
I remember many horrible accounts of evil and good aliens. Recently at my university whilst I was walking at 2 AM, I saw an UFO over a classroom building.
-CCR
Revolution
05-06-03, 09:12 PM
Dude are you serious? :confused:
I dont know about Ghost or UFO but that sounds like some serious physical abuse... consider keeping a base-ball bat ;) or non-lethals like Pepper-spray for self-defence.
Your dreams i cant help you with, there are some duaas i think you can recite and remember Allah before you go to sleep (and when you wake up) and you will be Fine. If you fear Allah you fear nothing else (men, mortals, angels, jinns, shaytan the lot have no effect except with His permission). Bruises on your body? Film Yourself!! - come on its not hard in this day and age... just use a comcorder or one linked up to your PC and watch what happens when u wake up... u may find you fell off your bed or you sleep walk?
"I experienced a horrible hairy creature that came into our house and attacked us and they tried to deface my copy of the Quran" - what kind of a creature? 4 legs? 2 legs? arms? If it had a Humanoid figure then you can bet it was a person in a costume (maybe a burgular?) - is your Quran gold-written or does it look valuable? How did this creature get IN? Did you lock the doors? do you live alone?... could it be someone playing a joke on you?
Why were you walking at 2AM ?
- u dont have to answer these questions for me...but for yourself otherwise you will be accused of being insane. There is a un-superstituous explanation to most things.
ClashCityRocker
05-06-03, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Revolution
... could it be someone playing a joke on you?
I sure hope not, or they'll be dead sorry!
-CCR
ClashCityRocker
05-06-03, 10:58 PM
I dont exactly go around telling people I saw this and that
otherwise I'm cracked
I used to recite duas, they never worked. Now that I've stopped saying duas, I've stopped recieving nightmares or waking dreams. I havent seen an UFO for a while either. :confused:
-CCR
Originally posted by Revolution
Dude are you serious? :confused:
I dont know about Ghost or UFO but that sounds like some serious physical abuse... consider keeping a base-ball bat ;) or non-lethals like Pepper-spray for self-defence.
Your dreams i cant help you with, there are some duaas i think you can recite and remember Allah before you go to sleep (and when you wake up) and you will be Fine. If you fear Allah you fear nothing else (men, mortals, angels, jinns, shaytan the lot have no effect except with His permission). Bruises on your body? Film Yourself!! - come on its not hard in this day and age... just use a comcorder or one linked up to your PC and watch what happens when u wake up... u may find you fell off your bed or you sleep walk?
"I experienced a horrible hairy creature that came into our house and attacked us and they tried to deface my copy of the Quran" - what kind of a creature? 4 legs? 2 legs? arms? If it had a Humanoid figure then you can bet it was a person in a costume (maybe a burgular?) - is your Quran gold-written or does it look valuable? How did this creature get IN? Did you lock the doors? do you live alone?... could it be someone playing a joke on you?
Why were you walking at 2AM ?
- u dont have to answer these questions for me...but for yourself otherwise you will be accused of being insane. There is a un-superstituous explanation to most things.
GenN
06-06-03, 07:17 AM
Salaam
These Shiites scholars who alleged to have received the invitation from their hidden imam are Sheikh Mufeed, Ishaq ibnu Yaqub etc. and you can find their accounts in the classical shiite work of Mafaatih al Jinaan,if i'm not mistaken.
JKK for that muwayaiyah, for some reason i didnt see your update earlier and ive seen all other updates on page 1 before :confused: I only noticed it when clashcity posted her answer about UFO experiences to you.
Wa salaam.
manowi
19-10-05, 09:56 AM
in the hadeeth of tamim ad-dari where it mentions about him meeting dajjal
it says after one month travelling in the sea... there IS an island about one months journey away from arabia and that island is the island of BRITAIN!
Mustafa83
19-10-05, 10:16 AM
the dajjil lives in europe and the burmuda triangle was a reptillian experiment gone wrong
MalikOne™
19-10-05, 11:01 AM
island of BRITAIN!
Yay the dajjal is Home :scratch: :eek3: :help: :mujahida::wavey:
Jawad Falak
19-10-05, 11:03 AM
Did you know that some people think that the Biblical/Quranic Gog and Magog (Hajuj wa Mahjuj) are Russia and China ? Since these two nations have their unique culture and history almost shutout from the rest of the World. Their Military is fearsome and their manpower is massive - equally the infamous war of Armageddon mentioned in the Bible and Hadith according to some Christians will be fought when the Jews try to re-establish their 3rd Temple and it will start world war 3 as the Arabs/Muslims fight the Jews ... America and the West will support Israel whereas Russia and China will join in on the other side or for their own intrests - leading to the Final Showdown.
How much truth there is in these theories and prophecies Allah only knows but what we do know is that In the END the Deen of Allah will be Supreme. Allahu Akbar! The Final Victory will be for the Believers.
I dont think so it is said when the yajooj majooj will be released they will not leave humans or other creatures alive and will cause the believers to be shut in their forts.These two are just a couple of big nations that are having trouble getting on their feet.
They alongwith the rest of the world are held hostage to fear from terrorism,nuclear war,economic meltdown,biochemical proliferation and crime.WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WHEN THE YAJOOJ MAJOOJ BREAK OUT!
rami.haddad
19-10-05, 12:37 PM
If you want to listen in details about the Dajjal as well as the hadith mentionned, go to this link and listen to the hereafter section (it is also in my signature).
http://www.eternalmultimedia.com/lecture_anwarawlaki_.html
The whole series touches your heart.
SoulAsylum
19-10-05, 12:42 PM
I get things touching the back of my neck......
Spooky........i dont know who it could be????????
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:26 PM
Oh please...I just don't know my some Muslims believe in this crap. Same story wit hthose dwarfs digging up in the earth and when they open up the hole and get it,it will be Judgement Day.
How the heck do we know this?Just because of some hadiths???Are these hadiths even authentic?My motto is,if it doesn't say it in the Qur'an,then I will not believe it.
In the Qur'an, my mom tells me that she hasn't came upon a surah that even says Jesus is coming back. But my dad says there is. So,can someone tell me if there is a surah in the Qur'an that talks of Jesus's return?
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:32 PM
brother its not crap read surat kahf and youll see Allah (swt) talks about the gog an magog
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:33 PM
and being a muslim you are obligated to follow the quran and sunnah and how else do you folow the sunnah other than by hadith?
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:35 PM
o yea one more thing for people who are scared of jinns, or are afraid the jinns may harm them there are so many duas, one is before you sleep you recite ayat al qursi from surat baqarah, and you recite the 3 last surahs in the quran three times and after each time you blow in your hands and pass it over your body, there are also many supplications you can find directly from the quran one that i say all the time is"rabbi a'outhou bika min hamazati shayateen, wa a'outhou bika rabi ain yahduroon.
hope this helps inshaallah
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:36 PM
Oh please...I just don't know my some Muslims believe in this crap. Same story wit hthose dwarfs digging up in the earth and when they open up the hole and get it,it will be Judgement Day.
How the heck do we know this?Just because of some hadiths???Are these hadiths even authentic?My motto is,if it doesn't say it in the Qur'an,then I will not believe it.
In the Qur'an, my mom tells me that she hasn't came upon a surah that even says Jesus is coming back. But my dad says there is. So,can someone tell me if there is a surah in the Qur'an that talks of Jesus's return?
just one more thing as your goal for ramdhan you should try your best to read the whole quran even in english this might help you understand alot.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:44 PM
and being a muslim you are obligated to follow the quran and sunnah and how else do you folow the sunnah other than by hadith?
The sunnah and the way we do prayers and wudou,I understand about that. They are customs in guiding us how to pray to the Lord.
As for hadiths,they are sayings and they could have been transformed or even made up along the way with men who had an agenda.
So why would God leave all that out of the Qur'an?
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:49 PM
it is not "left ouT" of the quran the sahabas recorded these ways of the prophet, that is why we should follow the hadeeth but we have to be sure of the source for example bukhari and muslim both compilations of hadeeth and at the same time their source is guaranteed to be sahih, which is pure without being changes or corrupted you cannot follow any hadeeth you have to make sure the chain of narration is real.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:49 PM
brother its not crap read surat kahf and youll see Allah (swt) talks about the gog an magog
Can you please find me that surah where it mentions all that?My mom who has read the whole Qur'an has said there is nowhere in the Qur'an where it mentions about that the day the dwarfs open up the whole they are digging,it'll be Judgement Day. Then what will happen to that theory if instead the world ends because of an asteroid or even because of nuclear war?
About Yajooj and Majooj.......It just does not make logical sense to me. All these years they are digging up in the earth?Which is humanely impossible. So they are immortal?They were not mortals like us?
Even Prophet Muhammed (phub) who was a holy being died at the age of 63 because he got sick,he was mortal like the rest of us.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:52 PM
it is not "left ouT" of the quran the sahabas recorded these ways of the prophet, that is why we should follow the hadeeth but we have to be sure of the source for example bukhari and muslim both compilations of hadeeth and at the same time their source is guaranteed to be sahih, which is pure without being changes or corrupted you cannot follow any hadeeth you have to make sure the chain of narration is real.
But still...I can never know that they are authentic and real just because men gathered around and said which ones were real and which ones were not. That is why I just stick to the Qur'an...I believe that the only source of Qur'an should be Allah and no one else. That is just my personal take on it. anyone can say something is not corrupted and has not been tampered with. But how do we know that?Why should I believe the word of these men that say that about the hadiths?
Omar
19-10-05, 05:53 PM
Oh please...I just don't know my some Muslims believe in this crap. Same story wit hthose dwarfs digging up in the earth and when they open up the hole and get it,it will be Judgement Day.
How the heck do we know this?Just because of some hadiths???Are these hadiths even authentic?My motto is,if it doesn't say it in the Qur'an,then I will not believe it.
In the Qur'an, my mom tells me that she hasn't came upon a surah that even says Jesus is coming back. But my dad says there is. So,can someone tell me if there is a surah in the Qur'an that talks of Jesus's return?
ohh heres that story of the dwarfs u wanted
The Qur’an narrates this story saying: “They ask thee concerning Dhul-Qarnayn. Say, I will rehearse to you something of his story. Verily we established his power on earth, and we gave him the ways and the means to all ends. One (such) way he followed, until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people: we said: O Dhul-Qarnayn (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness. He said: whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and he will punish him with a punishment unheard of (before). But whoever believes, and works righteousness, he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as we order it by our command. Then followed he (another) way, until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom we had provided no covering protection against the sun. (He left them) as they were: we completely understood what was before him. Then followed he (another) way, until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word. They said: O Dhul-Qarnayn the Gog and Magog (people) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them? He said: (the power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): help me therefore with strength (and labor): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them: Bring me blocks of iron. At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain sides, he said, blow (with your bellows) then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead. Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it. He said: this is a mercy from my Lord: but when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, he will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true.” (Al-Kahf: 83-97)
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:56 PM
:jkk: ^^
these hadeeth especially in sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are complied by men who studied islam so much, they went through a great deal to verify each chain of narration directly back to the sahaba's, that is why most mulims refer to these to books to quote any hadeeth they say.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:56 PM
ohh heres that story of the dwarfs u wanted
The Qur’an narrates this story saying: “They ask thee concerning Dhul-Qarnayn. Say, I will rehearse to you something of his story. Verily we established his power on earth, and we gave him the ways and the means to all ends. One (such) way he followed, until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people: we said: O Dhul-Qarnayn (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness. He said: whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and he will punish him with a punishment unheard of (before). But whoever believes, and works righteousness, he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as we order it by our command. Then followed he (another) way, until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom we had provided no covering protection against the sun. (He left them) as they were: we completely understood what was before him. Then followed he (another) way, until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word. They said: O Dhul-Qarnayn the Gog and Magog (people) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them? He said: (the power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): help me therefore with strength (and labor): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them: Bring me blocks of iron. At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain sides, he said, blow (with your bellows) then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead. Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it. He said: this is a mercy from my Lord: but when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, he will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true.” (Al-Kahf: 83-97)
Thank you for the passage!
Where does it say they they are still digging up in the earth and when they get out they wil start eating people alive and it is Judgement Day?From reading the passage it seems like god punished them and by the likes of it they got killed off.
Omar
19-10-05, 05:56 PM
Can you please find me that surah where it mentions all that?My mom who has read the whole Qur'an has said there is nowhere in the Qur'an where it mentions about that the day the dwarfs open up the whole they are digging,it'll be Judgement Day. Then what will happen to that theory if instead the world ends because of an asteroid or even because of nuclear war?
About Yajooj and Majooj.......It just does not make logical sense to me. All these years they are digging up in the earth?Which is humanely impossible. So they are immortal?They were not mortals like us?
Even Prophet Muhammed (phub) who was a holy being died at the age of 63 because he got sick,he was mortal like the rest of us.
And brother I think you should start reading the quran yourself :) Take that quran form mummy and read it inshaAllah
Omar
19-10-05, 05:57 PM
Thank you for the passage!
Where does it say they they are still digging up in the earth and when they get out they wil start eating people alive and it is Judgement Day?From reading the passage it seems like god punished them and by the likes of it they got killed off.
That would be in the authentic hadith would you like me to quote them?
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:58 PM
:jkk: ^^
these hadeeth especially in sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are complied by men who studied islam so much, they went through a great deal to verify each chain of narration directly back to the sahaba's, that is why most mulims refer to these to books to quote any hadeeth they say.
But still to me there is so guarantee that they are the absolute truth and have not been tampered with.
There is a lot of imams and Muslim scholars out there that are corrupt. Just because they studied Islam and deem themselve as scholars does not mean they are pure and not corrupt. This is not for ALL,but surely some and a good number of them-they're learning of the Qur'an is just an interpretation of what the Qur'an means to them.
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:59 PM
yes please read the quran, it will open up your eyes alot more and clarify alot of stuff.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 06:02 PM
Double post!Sorry.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 06:04 PM
That would be in the authentic hadith would you like me to quote them?
It is sister by the way. :)
But my argument is that it is not in the Qur'an....the hadith could be said to be authentic by people,but how do I know that?So that is why I do not believe it.
I am also just talking about logical sense. Two dwarfs after all these thousands of years are still digging up in the earth?They are not mortal like us?It just sounds like a mythical story to me. Even if Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) died like us and was morta like us. I do not see how these dwarfs would be given this power by God.Like I also mentioned....What would happen to that theory if instead an asteroid hit the earth and killed off humankind and instead even there was a nuclear war that wiped out the face of the earth?
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 06:05 PM
But still to me there is so guarantee that they are the absolute truth and have not been tampered with.
There is a lot of imams and Muslim scholars out there that are corrupt. Just because they studied Islam and deem themselve as scholars does not mean they are pure and not corrupt. This is not for ALL,but surely some and a good number of them-they're learning of the Qur'an is just an interpretation of what the Qur'an means to them.
if you live according to these guidlines you cannot be sure of anything, these great scholars went through all the work of making sure they are saheeh, brother ask any muslim and they will tell you that sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are... well sahih, are you saying that you do not belive in the 40 hadith qudsi and 40 hadith nabawi, all these hadith have the chain of narration, and most of the hadeeth come from sources close to the prophet for example Aisha (ra) his wife, and also Abu Huraira (ra) one of the sahaba's that used to follow him around recording his ways, how can you possible nullify this
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 06:13 PM
sister sorry :embar: its just hard to tell but if you read the last part of the ayat it tells you that they are diggin through the barrier and that Allah swt after a period of time will turn it to dust, and if Allah swt tells you about these creatures you cannot disbelieve in it, how about when Musa (as) parted the red sea with his rod, or when prophet Muhammed (saw) split the moon in half, or that yunus was swallowed by a whale and after repenting to Allah (swt) he was thrown unot the shore, or that Allah created Jinn out of smokeless fire and even the existence of angels, all this seems mystical , yet this is the beauty of Allah's powers, Allah can make anything possible. And it is not up to us to decide if we believe in it or not, once we make this shahadah anything that Allah says in the quran and all that the prophet (saw) did we have to obey and follow and believe, it is what makes us Muslims.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 06:13 PM
if you live according to these guidlines you cannot be sure of anything, these great scholars went through all the work of making sure they are saheeh, brother ask any muslim and they will tell you that sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are... well sahih, are you saying that you do not belive in the 40 hadith qudsi and 40 hadith nabawi, all these hadith have the chain of narration, and most of the hadeeth come from sources close to the prophet for example Aisha (ra) his wife, and also Abu Huraira (ra) one of the sahaba's that used to follow him around recording his ways, how can you possible nullify this
But my point is...That still does not guarantee the authenticity of hadiths. but to me the Qur'an is a different story. I believe in just believing in following the philosohpies of Islam and the Qur'an and why will I occupy myself with a bunch of mythical stories about dwarfs and Dajjal in hiding on this world?I just am fascinated and want to know why some will believe in these hadiths.
Even after Prophet Mohammed died....There was corruptions and mishandlings in the Islamic world. Especially after Caliph Omar died. Don't even get me started on the Ummayat period with all the corruption and mischief.
Even though Muslims speak in such a righteous tone about themselves. You need to look no further than today and see how corrupted the Islamic world is.
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 06:15 PM
read the last thread i made, i wrote it before you typed the question:D
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 06:18 PM
sister sorry :embar: its just hard to tell but if you read the last part of the ayat it tells you that they are diggin through the barrier and that Allah swt after a period of time will turn it to dust, and if Allah swt tells you about these creatures you cannot disbelieve in it, how about when Musa (as) parted the red sea with his rod, or when prophet Muhammed (saw) split the moon in half, or that yunus was swallowed by a whale and after repenting to Allah (swt) he was thrown unot the shore, or that Allah created Jinn out of smokeless fire and even the existence of angels, all this seems mystical , yet this is the beauty of Allah's powers, Allah can make anything possible. And it is not up to us to decide if we believe in it or not, once we make this shahadah anything that Allah says in the quran and all that the prophet (saw) did we have to obey and follow and believe, it is what makes us Muslims.
But that is all it says.It only said digging,how does that go to them still digging in this earth?It does not mention that they will be digging in the earth for all this time and then when they come out they will start eating people and it will be Judgement Day.
As for the other things you mentioned,it is mentioned in the Qur'an. And they happened a LONG time ago...During the periods of when the prophets came down.
But now?Dwarfs digging through earth seems mythical to me.
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 06:22 PM
sister again anything is possible when allah says it is, it is. and this started happening since the time of dhul qarnain, as did the dajjal locked away on and island waiting to be freed do you not believe in him either? or what about the return of Isa (as), and the so many signs of yawm al qiyamat such as the rising of the beast, the sun rising from the west, the dajjl, the gog and magog, the mahdi, all these seem mythical and yet Allah sawt guaranteed it happening.
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 06:27 PM
Noble Verses 18:83-110
83. They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain [or Dhul-qarnain]. Say, 'I will rehearse to you something of his story.'
84. Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.
85. One (such) way he followed,
86. Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: 'O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.'
87. He said: 'Whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and He will punish him with a punishment unheard-of (before).
88. But whoever believes, and works righteousness,- he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as We order it by our Command.'
89. Then followed he (another) way,
90. Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.
91. (He left them) as they were: We completely understood what was before him.
92. Then followed he (another) way,
93. Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word.
94. They said: 'O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (People) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?'
95. He said: '(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): Help me therefore with strength (and labour): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them:
96. Bring me blocks of iron.' At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain-sides, He said, 'Blow (with your bellows)' Then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: 'Bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead.'
97. Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it.
98. He said: 'This is a mercy from my Lord: But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true.'
99. On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another: the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.
100. And We shall present Hell that day for Unbelievers to see, all spread out,-
101. (Unbelievers) whose eyes had been under a veil from remembrance of Me, and who had been unable even to hear.
102. Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.
103. Say: 'Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-
104. Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?'
105. They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight.
106. That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.
107. As to those who believe and work righteous deeds, they have, for their entertainment, the Gardens of Paradise,
108. Wherein they shall dwell (for aye): no change will they wish for from them.
109. Say: 'If the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out) the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted than would the words of my Lord, even if we added another ocean like it, for its aid.'
110. Say: 'I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your God is one God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.'
mansio
19-10-05, 06:28 PM
When I hear about all those tales from the Quran, many of them borrowed from
non Muslim authors, I feel sorry for God that they are attributed to Him.
Omar
19-10-05, 06:33 PM
Sister also read around surat al-Anbiya' 21:96.....
94. Whoever works any act of righteousness and has faith,- His endeavour will not be rejected: We shall record it in his favour.
95. But there is a ban on any population which We have destroyed: that they shall not return,
96. Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly swarm from every hill.
97. Then will the true promise draw nigh (of fulfilment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"
Tin Tin
19-10-05, 06:44 PM
I dont think he is near the Bermuda Triangle.
TRANSWARP
19-10-05, 06:55 PM
When I hear about all those tales from the Quran, many of them borrowed from
non Muslim authors, I feel sorry for God that they are attributed to Him.
And I feel sorry for the brain damaged chrstians like you, who will burn in hell for all eternity.
GothiKa
19-10-05, 07:06 PM
mansio likes to assert all the time. just ignore him
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 07:56 PM
sister again anything is possible when allah says it is, it is. and this started happening since the time of dhul qarnain, as did the dajjal locked away on and island waiting to be freed do you not believe in him either? or what about the return of Isa (as), and the so many signs of yawm al qiyamat such as the rising of the beast, the sun rising from the west, the dajjl, the gog and magog, the mahdi, all these seem mythical and yet Allah sawt guaranteed it happening.
I am just speaking of logical sense here. And still NOWHERE in the Qur'an does it suggest that they are digging in the earth waiting to get out and eat people for Judgement Day.
Nope...I do not believe that Dajjal is locked away on an island...I think the sun rising in the West is in the Qur'an,I'd have to make sure of that.
There is quite some interpretation about Jesus coming back...
8) Jesus (pbuh) would be one of the Signs of the Hour;
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment: therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.
Qur'an 43.61
http://www.al-qiyamah.org/
Of course I do not believe about the whole Mahdi nonsense. In the Surah Al-Qiyameh, there is no mention of the dwarrfs and even Dajjal on some random island or Mahdi. So my belief is that he is surely dead and was just a descendent of Prophet Mohammed(pbuh).
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 07:58 PM
:start:
96. Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly swarm from every hill.
does this ayat not speak for itself?
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 08:07 PM
Sister also read around surat al-Anbiya' 21:96.....
94. Whoever works any act of righteousness and has faith,- His endeavour will not be rejected: We shall record it in his favour.
95. But there is a ban on any population which We have destroyed: that they shall not return,
96. Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly swarm from every hill.
97. Then will the true promise draw nigh (of fulfilment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"
Ok,still that does not say it means they are digging through the earth and that they are being let out for Judgement Day. It only says until they are let through their barrier.
How does a passage like that go to meaning they are gidding through in the earth and that when they come out,they will eat people and it is Day of Judgement?
Here is some info on Gog and Magog...
The tradition of Gog and Magog begins with cryptic Biblical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible) references regarding apocalyptic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse) prophecy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy) in the Book of Ezekiel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Ezekiel) and the Book of Revelation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation). The ambiguity of this tradition cannot be overstated. The very nature of these entities differs greatly in the discourse, according to the places and times of the sources, and they are variously presented as human beings, as supernatural beings (giants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giants) or demons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demons)), as nations, and as lands (Magog being often interpreted as the land of Gog). They are mentioned in the Qur'an (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur%27an) as Yajooj-Majooj (or Yecüc-Mecüc in the Turkish spelling) and occur widely in mythology and folklore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog
Obviously, the Gog and Magog are biblical and quranic stories that have been taken way out of context and stretched out. In so many different cultures, they are assignment different stories and myths about Gog and Magog.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 08:10 PM
When I hear about all those tales from the Quran, many of them borrowed from
non Muslim authors, I feel sorry for God that they are attributed to Him.
Actually, that is what I am trying to discuss here....How these tales are not even in the Qur'an and that they have been taken out of context by followers of these faiths.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 08:15 PM
Also,about Mahdi...supposedly he was the 12th Imam and dissappeared. I am sunni so I have a different set of beliefs about it and I do not believe that imams are infallible.
So my question to those who believe that Mahdi is coming back....why would he be considered the saviour to come back?How could he be not dead if he was mortal like the rest of us?Where does it even mention his name in the Qur'an?
ur_yusra
19-10-05, 08:22 PM
Frankly speaking i also believe that the Dajjal is locked up somewhere in the Bermuda triangle.It is an established fact that the 12 Imam of the Shi'ites is the Dajjal. (http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/azarinni/hum.htm)And many Shi'ite scholars in Iraq and elsewhere claim that they had invitations from this 12th Imam and when they went to visit him, they found that they were brought somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle in order to meet their 12 imam. They found him with a huge army of Jinns[could be shayteen] who took orders from him. wallahu Al'aam
Noway??? :S
Aasiya
19-10-05, 08:41 PM
This is all very compelling.
.: Rashid :.
19-10-05, 09:16 PM
May Allah guide you ukhti...
Anyone wanna go to the bermuda triangle and find out if he really is there? Come on, it'll be fun :D
-Rashid
Omar
19-10-05, 09:22 PM
May Allah guide you ukhti...
Anyone wanna go to the bermuda triangle and find out if he really is there? Come on, it'll be fun :D
-Rashid
And we can follow the yellow brick road :D
The journey might be fun...Finding him wont be :p
.: Rashid :.
19-10-05, 09:25 PM
And we can follow the yellow brick road :D
The journey might be fun...Finding him wont be :p
lol...he's chained up ;) We can point at him and laugh, and he can't do anything to us :D
Better yet...we could try to torture him, or kill him, as pre-revenge for all the chaos and mayhem he'll spread...? :badguy:
-Rashid
Abdulhameed
19-10-05, 11:54 PM
Oh please...I just don't know my some Muslims believe in this crap. Same story wit hthose dwarfs digging up in the earth and when they open up the hole and get it,it will be Judgement Day.
How the heck do we know this?Just because of some hadiths???Are these hadiths even authentic?My motto is,if it doesn't say it in the Qur'an,then I will not believe it.
In the Qur'an, my mom tells me that she hasn't came upon a surah that even says Jesus is coming back. But my dad says there is. So,can someone tell me if there is a surah in the Qur'an that talks of Jesus's return?
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. "
33:21
"Say: Obey Allah and obey the messenger. But if ye turn away, then (it is) for him (to do) only that wherewith he hath been charged, and for you (to do) only that wherewith ye have been charged. If ye obey him, ye will go aright. But the messenger hath no other charge than to convey (the message) plainly. "
24:54
Say: O mankind! I am only a plain warner unto you.Those who believe and do good works, for them is pardon and a rich provision.
22:50
Did not the prophet (pbuh) warn us against the dajjal and yagog and magog in the hadeeths posted by the brothers/sisters?
Futhermore My Question is how can you obey these two commands from Allah in the Quran, without the sunnah. Will you make it up yourself, since the quran does not mention how to pray, how to make wudu etc?
btw the quran does mention Gog and Magog in numerous places :
"They said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Lo! Gog and Magog are spoiling the land. So may we pay thee tribute on condition that thou set a barrier between us and them?"
18:94
"And there is a ban upon any community which We have destroyed: that they shall not return .Until, when Gog and Magog are let loose, and they hasten out of every mound. And the True Promise draweth nigh; then behold them, staring wide (in terror), the eyes of those who disbelieve! (They say): Alas for us! We (lived) in forgetfulness of this. Ah, but we were wrong-doers!"
21:95-97
I sincerely suggest that you take a course on hadeeth compilation, and learn about the great lengths and pain taken by those who loved Allah and His messenger to compile it and transfer it.
I am also just talking about logical sense. Two dwarfs after all these thousands of years are still digging up in the earth?They are not mortal like us?It just sounds like a mythical story to me. Even if Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) died like us and was morta like us.
"He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned"
21:23
I do not see how these dwarfs would be given this power by God.Like I also mentioned....What would happen to that theory if instead an asteroid hit the earth and killed off humankind and instead even there was a nuclear war that wiped out the face of the earth?
Its in the Quran. period. Are you telling us know that you doubt the quran ontop of doubting the sunnah???
The sunnah does not reach the level of authenticity of the quran because the quran is incurruptable. But know this, the Quran as much as it is from Allah The Almighty, can be interpreted by men into their own desires, what the sunnah does is confirm the quran by showing us how the prophet applied the deen, and by extension how we should. Therefore if like these " liberal" muslims wanted to re-interpret the quran, nothing can stop them except for the fact that the prophet did not interpret it that way and thus you go against the verse
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. "
33:21".
Therfore the sunnah is crucial and was transmitted through the efforts of men for the sake of Allah in accordance with the prophets acts, therefore if a hadeeth contradicts the quran it is null and void. THe Quran is always first, but the sunnah is there to tell us exactly , emphatically, specifically how to apply the quran without any room for misguidance.
Consider this my friend, The Quran does not mention the existnce of just for example, the ducked billed platypus specifically, nor did it mention, elastic bands, if we take your logic, these things are false and should not exist since the quran does not mention them.
After all of this you have no excuse to disbelieve in the existence of Gog and Magog, as well as the dajjal since the quran mentions them and even if it doesnt the sunnah does. Bear this in mind, if the quran does not mention something that the sunnah does and vice versa it is not false, so long as it is in the other.
Seeker_of_Truth
20-10-05, 01:49 AM
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. "
33:21
Futhermore My Question is how can you obey these two commands from Allah in the Quran, without the sunnah. Will you make it up yourself, since the quran does not mention how to pray, how to make wudu etc?
The sunnah are customs of the Prophet and the sayings and doings of the Prophet. I am Sunni myself so I do not follow the sayings and doings of imams,they are nonsense to me. So,I only follow the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). The difference is that the sunnah and hadiths are two different things. Hadiths are collections of narrations and approvals. So I believe in the sunnah of the Prophet in which they are his customs. Also, as for the hadiths...I tend to follow only the ones the Prophet said and I'd have to find if they are authentic. I do not believe in the hadiths of imams and others.
btw the quran does mention Gog and Magog in numerous places :
"They said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Lo! Gog and Magog are spoiling the land. So may we pay thee tribute on condition that thou set a barrier between us and them?"
18:94
"And there is a ban upon any community which We have destroyed: that they shall not return .Until, when Gog and Magog are let loose, and they hasten out of every mound. And the True Promise draweth nigh; then behold them, staring wide (in terror), the eyes of those who disbelieve! (They say): Alas for us! We (lived) in forgetfulness of this. Ah, but we were wrong-doers!"
21:95-97
I sincerely suggest that you take a course on hadeeth compilation, and learn about the great lengths and pain taken by those who loved Allah and His messenger to compile it and transfer it.
I know about Gog and Magog in the Qur'an...Even the Christians and in the Book of Revelations they believe that they will come back on Earth and it will be the apocalypse. It is just that I have asked to show me WHERE in the Qur'an it implies that they are digging through earth,and when they get out that they will eat people alive and it will be Judgement Day. People just gave me some hadith some person said. Everyone has ignored this question of mine and just brings me a passage where it mentions their story. I know their story and that is not what I am asking for.
In sura Al-Qimayeh,it mentions all these things that will happen on judgement Day and nowhere does it mention Gog and Magog coming back and about Mahdi and Dajjal. Abu Hurrairah is the one who said he "heard" he Prophet talk about Dajjal. Sorry,I don't buy those hadiths. Dajjal is mentioned NOWHERE in the Qur'an.
So why would the Prophet mention Dajjal but he is mentioned NOWHERE in the Qur'an????It does not make sense to me. It looks like these hadiths were made up. Why is it that in all these surahs talking about Judegement Day and what will appear and happen, Dajjal,Gog and Magog and Mahdi are not mentioned????So why am I supposed to believe them because some "hadiths" say so?
Its in the Quran. period. Are you telling us know that you doubt the quran ontop of doubting the sunnah???
I KNOW that Gog and Magog is in the Qur'an,their story.
But as of now NO ONE has showed me where there is a passage in the Qur'an that talks that Dajjal is hiding on some island, that Gog and Magog will come back on Judgement Day and that Mahdi will be a saviour on Judement Day. So my point still stands firmly and no one has brought valid points to refute my claims.
The sunnah does not reach the level of authenticity of the quran because the quran is incurruptable. But know this, the Quran as much as it is from Allah The Almighty, can be interpreted by men into their own desires, what the sunnah does is confirm the quran by showing us how the prophet applied the deen, and by extension how we should. Therefore if like these " liberal" muslims wanted to re-interpret the quran, nothing can stop them except for the fact that the prophet did not interpret it that way...
Yes,what is in the Qur'an is in the Qur'an. The Qur'an can mean something different to different people. You cannot change around laws,BUT...it can mean different things to you.
I am not talking about the sunnah...I am talking about hadiths. How do I know that some hadiths in which the Prophet's companions were saying he said it were not misinterpreted or are even real?So,that is why I just follow the Qur'an's philosophies and teachings and not most of the hadiths.
Consider this my friend, The Quran does not mention the existnce of just for example, the ducked billed platypus specifically, nor did it mention, elastic bands, if we take your logic, these things are false and should not exist since the quran does not mention them.
Huh?That is illogical what you are stating. These things DO exist. They are concrete and tangible evidence.
What I am saying is why will I take the word of some hadiths about Dajjal,Gog and Magog and Mahdi on Jugdement Day when it is supposedly the companions of the prophet that said that the Prophet told them and even ones who say that I heard it from a friend of a friend of the Prophet?These things would surely be mentioned in the Qur'an as happening on Judegement Day if they were to be true. Why would God leave them out?
After all of this you have no excuse to disbelieve in the existence of Gog and Magog, as well as the dajjal since the quran mentions them and even if it doesnt the sunnah does. Bear this in mind, if the quran does not mention something that the sunnah does and vice versa it is not false, so long as it is in the other.
Nowhere does it mention Dajjal in the Qur'an,as it states here...
Chapter 9: The Menace of the Dajjal According to the Qur'an and Hadith:
As stated above,there is no mention of Dajjal in the Qur'an by this particular name. But in authentic hadith we are told that the recital of the chapter the Cave in the Qur'an is a remedy for the menace of Dajjal, and this particular chapter deals specially with Christianity and its false doctrines. The first and last ten verses of this chapter in particular deal with the beliefs and activities of the Christian nations. This clearly shows that according to the Qur'an, Dajjal menace is only another name for the predominance of the false doctrines of Christianity and the dominance of the materialistic outlook on life of the Western nations. In other words, what the hadith describes as the tribulation of Dajjal is nothing else but the predominance of the concept of life of the Christian West. The Books of Hadith proclaim with one voice that the tribulation of Dajjal is the greatest of all tribulations, so much so that a Muslim is taught to pray to God in his five daily prayers to be saved from being afflicted with the tribulations of the Dajjal: "O Allah! I seek refuge in Thee from the trial of al-Masih al-Dajjal."
http://aaiil.org/text/books/mali/gog/sgmnt2.shtml
He is only mentioned in "authentic" hadiths in which I don't take seriously.
So why would the Qur'an be silent on an event that is deemed to be as one of the greatest tribulations of Judgement Day for those who believe in those hadiths?
Seeker_of_Truth
20-10-05, 02:03 AM
Here is a take on what one brother said about Dajjal on another forum.I like his take on it..
MuslimZ
Now for some seriousness. My grandfather, a well learned man (alhamdulilah), talked about the issue of Dajjal. He says that most likely it is not entirely accurate.First of all, there is no mention of Dajjal in the Qur'an, and Allah is the most knowing. Secondly, the hadith that reports the talk of Dajjal was only reported by one sahabah, which is very strange because most ahadith that contained very important information were almost always reported by multiple sources. The hadith from the one sources cites a speech that the Prophet (saw) gave that lasted from Dhur to Maghrib. Over such a long period of time, it is doubtful that other sahabah, such as the prophet's wife, wouldn't have taken notes on something as monumental as the end to all mankind. However, as is obvious, there are many doubts on the issue of Dajjal, and it's best to simply not dwell on this.
rami.haddad
20-10-05, 04:09 AM
So,that is why I just follow the Qur'an's philosophies and teachings and not most of the hadiths.
Salam Aleikum brother,
This is wrong brother, Muslims follow the Quran AND the Sunna, BOTH not one or the other. It is very dangerous if you disregard the hadiths.
You are correct the dejjal is not mentionned in the Quran, but he IS mentionned in the hadiths. Furthermore all Prophets (peace be upon them) mentionned the dejjal. There are different theories on why he is not mentionned in the Quran.
Listen to this link, the section on the hereafter talks about the dejjal and why he is not mentionned in the Quran.
http://www.eternalmultimedia.com/lecture_anwarawlaki_.html
.: Rashid :.
20-10-05, 05:37 AM
So my point still stands firmly and no one has brought valid points to refute my claims.
I'll continue...May Allah guide you :)
BTW, as someone mentioned earlier, why do you pray like you do? Why do you perform wudhu, like you do? Why do you say te shahada, like you do? As far as I know, NONE of these things are EVER described in the Qur'an. Only in the sunnah and the hadith. Are you going to question these, too?
The imams which compiled the various hadith went through a lot of trouble to make sure they were authentic. I don't think you appreciate just how much. Do you think you have more knowledge of ahadith than them?
Shari'ah law is based upon the Qur'an, the hadith, and the sunnah, each in light of each other. As far as I know...denying the shari'ah (not contending one part of it, I mean actually completely denying it) is apostasy.
Jazakallah akhi abdulhameed for the post...I'm outta rep, or I would've repped you :)
-Rashid
mansio
20-10-05, 07:27 AM
It's astonishing in the XXIst century to see how gullible you are to believe in all those fairy tales.
The only answer you have is to send the sensible person to hell.
Do you realise what kind of image you give of Islam ?
To stick to those stories without questioning them is an act of mental cowardice.
The good news is that God is more reasonable than you are.
~Soul~
20-10-05, 07:35 AM
i heard that the bermuda triangle was a barrier between the jinn world and the human world
Bizza
20-10-05, 09:20 AM
Very intriguiging!
When it comes to the Bermuda Triangle, I personally think there's a massive amount of electromagnetism going on well below the sea! This could be like those mountains, that "pull" metallic object like cars up without having the engine on!
Dejaal is very real!
Even if it's not mentioned in the Quran itself.
Why do other religions talk about the "Anti-Christ" as well then?
Isn't there a common theme here?
Also adding to the separate issue of Dog & Magog, I thought they were held down by ZulKarneyn? Using iron to form some sort of barrier between 2 mountains on Earth?
Maybe an electro-magnetic force (due to the magnetic properties of iron(Fe)?
Maybe the "electrical/gravitational barrier" is what's holding them below the Earth?
But what kind of creatures would they be to be hybernating for soooo long?
Very intriguiging indeed!
~Soul~
20-10-05, 09:27 AM
gog and magog r tryna get out and one day they will and theyll eat evrythin and destruct evrythin
But what kind of creatures would they be to be hybernating for soooo long?
noo idea i just hope im not alive to see them
Lara's theme
20-10-05, 09:37 AM
gog and magog r tryna get out and one day they will and theyll eat evrythin and destruct evrythin
noo idea i just hope im not alive to see them
Please give us a break!
~Soul~
20-10-05, 09:38 AM
give u a break from wat :scratch:
from the truth?
SharifMahdi
20-10-05, 09:50 AM
on a slightly different note, and being totally serious
when we read about ya'jooj and ma'jooj, do you ever reflect that they are still alive and hidden somewhere on earth?
and if you read the hadiths, they speak of all of the destruction that they will do when they are released
yes, we should seek refuge from dajjal, after every salat, and then some
but it is an intriguiging subject, the companions would ask the prophet often about ad-dajjal
Hey,
Everyone already knows were ya'jooj' and ma'jooj' is hidden!
Its in these two mountains in syria were if anything fly above it falls
Read up on it!!
Salams
Ps. The dajaal cant be in bermuda.
He will emerge in the middle of syria and iraq
Mustafa83
20-10-05, 09:52 AM
i heard that the bermuda triangle was a barrier between the jinn world and the human world
thats what the "reptilian" is they are really jinns these people look like your average human being but inside they are really a lizard type creature. They use the burmuda triangle to access the lost city of atlantis. It was a experiment gone bad that created the gateway to the other deminsion.
picture of a reptilian/jinn
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/6951/repsmall2rx.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/425/lizardman1lt.jpg
http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/9186/vface9jl.jpg
suspected reptillians
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/7347/lizardpeople0iv.jpg
SharifMahdi
20-10-05, 09:53 AM
Very intriguiging!
When it comes to the Bermuda Triangle, I personally think there's a massive amount of electromagnetism going on well below the sea! This could be like those mountains, that "pull" metallic object like cars up without having the engine on!
Dejaal is very real!
Even if it's not mentioned in the Quran itself.
Why do other religions talk about the "Anti-Christ" as well then?
Isn't there a common theme here?
Also adding to the separate issue of Dog & Magog, I thought they were held down by ZulKarneyn? Using iron to form some sort of barrier between 2 mountains on Earth?
Maybe an electro-magnetic force (due to the magnetic properties of iron(Fe)?
Maybe the "electrical/gravitational barrier" is what's holding them below the Earth?
But what kind of creatures would they be to be hybernating for soooo long?
Very intriguiging indeed!
Buddy "Gog and Magog" is not hibernating
They are working very hard everyday to get out!
They dig on the side of a mountain everyday
and then go to sleep without say Inshallah
So allah restores the mountain
so they do it over the next day
One day one of them will say inshallah and the work will be left alone
and they will be set free the next day!
Bizza
20-10-05, 11:34 AM
Buddy "Gog and Magog" is not hibernating
They are working very hard everyday to get out!
They dig on the side of a mountain everyday
and then go to sleep without say Inshallah
So allah restores the mountain
so they do it over the next day
One day one of them will say inshallah and the work will be left alone
and they will be set free the next day!
OK ...
What's with the Iron then?
Are these creatures using magnetic force?
rami.haddad
20-10-05, 01:27 PM
But what kind of creatures would they be to be hybernating for soooo long?
Listen to the link in my signature it describes the Gog and Magog, there are from the sons of Adam and are therefore human.
Salman Al-Farsi
20-10-05, 02:50 PM
When I hear about all those tales from the Quran, many of them borrowed from
non Muslim authors, I feel sorry for God that they are attributed to Him.
Good Bye.
Seeker_of_Truth
20-10-05, 02:58 PM
I'll continue...May Allah guide you :)
BTW, as someone mentioned earlier, why do you pray like you do? Why do you perform wudhu, like you do? Why do you say te shahada, like you do? As far as I know, NONE of these things are EVER described in the Qur'an. Only in the sunnah and the hadith. Are you going to question these, too?
The imams which compiled the various hadith went through a lot of trouble to make sure they were authentic. I don't think you appreciate just how much. Do you think you have more knowledge of ahadith than them?
Shari'ah law is based upon the Qur'an, the hadith, and the sunnah, each in light of each other. As far as I know...denying the shari'ah (not contending one part of it, I mean actually completely denying it) is apostasy.
Jazakallah akhi abdulhameed for the post...I'm outta rep, or I would've repped you :)
-Rashid
It is sister by the way. :)
As I have mentioned,we need to put in place the difference between sunnah and hadith. As this definition implies...
Sunnah and Hadith
The Sunnah is the way or deeds of Muhammad in Sunni Islam, and the way or deeds of Muhammad and the twelve Imams in Shi'a Islam, while Hadith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith) is a collection of the narrations and approvals. The two words are interchangeable when referring to the Traditions, but actually there is a difference between the two. Hadiths are classified according their status, in relation to their texts (matn) and their chain of transmitters (isnad). Scholars of Hadiths have studied the Sunnah from their context (matn) as well as from their transmitters (isnad) in order to establish what is true and what is false from these hadiths. These were influential in the development of early Muslim philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_philosophy) and modern scientific citation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_citation).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah
So a Sunnah and Hadith are different.
Hadiths are like proverbs to me. That is why I don't take their authencity seriously. Even if Islamic scholars went through to research their supposed authenticity,they are like other proverbs and sayings. A lot of people out there claim something is authentic because they researched it,when infact it isn't. So that is why I only stick with the Qur'an which is said to be unchanged and not tampered with.
Usually, the hadiths also...They are said to have been said by the Prophet by MANY of the Prophet's friends. The Dajjal hadith was said through only ONE friend of the Prophet who supposedly heard it. The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.
But the coming of Dajjal would be something of a great tribulation on the coming of Judgement Day...Why would God not mention him in the Qur'an?Look at all the other signs God talked about in the Qur'an of Judegement Day and then Dajjal is not even mentioned in there.
All those hadiths about Judgement Day seem like myths and stories to place fear into people. So I will just stick the Qur'an's signs about Judgement Day.
As I said even if the holy prophet was mortal and died like the rest of us. Gog and Magog and Dajjal would surely still not be alive...we are mortals and eventually die off.
rami.haddad
20-10-05, 03:50 PM
It is sister by the way. :)
As I have mentioned,we need to put in place the difference between sunnah and hadith. As this definition implies...
So a Sunnah and Hadith are different.
Hadiths are like proverbs to me. That is why I don't take their authencity seriously. Even if Islamic scholars went through to research their supposed authenticity,they are like other proverbs and sayings. A lot of people out there claim something is authentic because they researched it,when infact it isn't. So that is why I only stick with the Qur'an which is said to be unchanged and not tampered with.
Usually, the hadiths also...They are said to have been said by the Prophet by MANY of the Prophet's friends. The Dajjal hadith was said through only ONE friend of the Prophet who supposedly heard it. The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.
But the coming of Dajjal would be something of a great tribulation on the coming of Judgement Day...Why would God not mention him in the Qur'an?Look at all the other signs God talked about in the Qur'an of Judegement Day and then Dajjal is not even mentioned in there.
All those hadiths about Judgement Day seem like myths and stories to place fear into people. So I will just stick the Qur'an's signs about Judgement Day.
As I said even if the holy prophet was mortal and died like the rest of us. Gog and Magog and Dajjal would surely still not be alive...we are mortals and eventually die off.
Who said that Dajjal cannot be still alive, Saidna Noh (peace be upon him) lived more then 950 years. Who said there can't be long-lived humans?
Anyways I agree with the statement:
BTW, as someone mentioned earlier, why do you pray like you do? Why do you perform wudhu, like you do? Why do you say te shahada, like you do? As far as I know, NONE of these things are EVER described in the Qur'an. Only in the sunnah and the hadith. Are you going to question these, too?
The imams which compiled the various hadith went through a lot of trouble to make sure they were authentic. I don't think you appreciate just how much. Do you think you have more knowledge of ahadith than them?
Shari'ah law is based upon the Qur'an, the hadith, and the sunnah, each in light of each other. As far as I know...denying the shari'ah (not contending one part of it, I mean actually completely denying it) is apostasy.
Again I repeat if you want to know Dajjel is not mentionned listen to the link in my signature.
Bubblegoose
20-10-05, 08:35 PM
Seek refuge in Allah from the trials of this life and the trials of the dajjal.
Seek refuge in Allah from the trails of the grave, the day of judgement and ultimately the hellfire.
Ask Allah for the forgiveness of yours sins, and for the sins of Ummah, past, present and those yet to come, and ask Allah to grant us all a lofty elevation within Jannat Ul Firdaus.
Abdulhameed
20-10-05, 09:11 PM
It is sister by the way. :)
As I have mentioned,we need to put in place the difference between sunnah and hadith. As this definition implies...
So a Sunnah and Hadith are different.
I agree with you, but are you aware that the sunnah is transfered to us through the hadeeth??? How would we know what the sunnah of the prophet is if we didnt have any hadeeth?? This is the point i think that you might have overlooked. You agree that the way to pray is in the sunnah, now the question is how did it reach us and how can we confirm that this is the correct way? The answer is through the hadeeth. So you cant follow the sunnah by rejecting the hadeeth as that is the form through which it is transferred.
Hadiths are like proverbs to me. That is why I don't take their authencity seriously. Even if Islamic scholars went through to research their supposed authenticity,they are like other proverbs and sayings. A lot of people out there claim something is authentic because they researched it,when infact it isn't. So that is why I only stick with the Qur'an which is said to be unchanged and not tampered with.
Ok since you seem to be so stuck on the possibility that it "might" be corrupted and thus worthy of being rejected, can you then please give us a few hadeeth that are false explan why, and then compare them with the multitude of hadeeth that are authentic. Im sure this wont be difficult since you seem so sure that the majority if not all hadeeth are false and worthy of rejection.
Usually, the hadiths also...They are said to have been said by the Prophet by MANY of the Prophet's friends. The Dajjal hadith was said through only ONE friend of the Prophet who supposedly heard it. The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.
.
First of all this hadeeth was reported by one person directly from the prophet. Secondly in only 2 books, books of hadeeth-sahih bukhari and muslim- the dajjal is mentioned 118 times, so its not a unique hadeeth mentioned by one person in only one hadeeth book rather he is constantly mentioned in many more books. Finally do you not say in the tashahuud ( part of the salah where you move your fingers) that you seek protection in Allah from the dajjal? I dont see how you can accept the way the prophet prays ( which includes mention of the dajjal) and yet still reject his existence
replicate
20-10-05, 09:28 PM
On being asked as to when Dajjal will appear. A scholar responded, the time for his appearance is for Allah to decide, pray that he doesn't appear in your lifetime. How true.
Seeker_of_Truth
20-10-05, 11:00 PM
Who said that Dajjal cannot be still alive, Saidna Noh (peace be upon him) lived more then 950 years. Who said there can't be long-lived humans?
Noah was holy and a prophet. Dajjal and Magog and Gog are not. At that time also, these things seemed to happen in Prophet era times. Now?Nope,I do not believe it can't happen.
Still no one has showed me why I should believe in Dajjal. As I can see from the Qur'an, God never even metnioned him.
Marwan
20-10-05, 11:24 PM
There's only one Bermuda triangle and I'm currently logged into it.
Seeker_of_Truth
20-10-05, 11:25 PM
I agree with you, but are you aware that the sunnah is transfered to us through the hadeeth??? How would we know what the sunnah of the prophet is if we didnt have any hadeeth?? This is the point i think that you might have overlooked. You agree that the way to pray is in the sunnah, now the question is how did it reach us and how can we confirm that this is the correct way? The answer is through the hadeeth. So you cant follow the sunnah by rejecting the hadeeth as that is the form through which it is transferred.
I did not say I dismiss all hadiths. Those hadiths in talking about the way we do wudu and pray are customs and sunnah. Things about Dajjal and Gog and Magog are not customs, they are stories and "supposed" prophecies on what will happen on Judgement Day.
Ok since you seem to be so stuck on the possibility that it "might" be corrupted and thus worthy of being rejected, can you then please give us a few hadeeth that are false explan why, and then compare them with the multitude of hadeeth that are authentic. Im sure this wont be difficult since you seem so sure that the majority if not all hadeeth are false and worthy of rejection.
Ok,I'll give one example....The hadiths of how to pray and wudu are true to me because they are customs and a way taken from the Prophet in how to pray. Everyone prayed like him so that is I know it is true.
As for hadiths on Dajjal and those other mythical stories...I will not believe them because there is no way why I should believe them. It is only where it is said that they heard it from the Prophet. So it is hearsay. As I have mentioned before of why the Dajjal one is fake.Here is a repeat of what I wrote.Usually, the hadiths also...They are said to have been said by the Prophet by MANY of the Prophet's friends. The Dajjal hadith was said through only ONE friend of the Prophet who supposedly heard it. The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.
There is also ridiculous hadiths out there like the one in which it says if a wife refuses to have intercourse with her husband when he asks,then she is doomed to hell. What a ridiculous piece of crock!And some people actually believe it because supposedly it is true.
So if you people believe most of these hadiths with mythical stories like Dajjal and Magog and Gog then how come you don't believe other things that people said they researched very well and say are true?What do you base these hadiths to be true on?Just because someone collected and is deemed a scholar?How can anyone assure the reliability and authenticity of these mythical hadiths?They even sound ridiculous!Dajjal chained on an island?Gog and Magog digging in earth?I guess Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are real too.
First of all this hadeeth was reported by one person directly from the prophet. Secondly in only 2 books, books of hadeeth-sahih bukhari and muslim- the dajjal is mentioned 118 times, so its not a unique hadeeth mentioned by one person in only one hadeeth book rather he is constantly mentioned in many more books. Finally do you not say in the tashahuud ( part of the salah where you move your fingers) that you seek protection in Allah from the dajjal? I dont see how you can accept the way the prophet prays ( which includes mention of the dajjal) and yet still reject his existence
The hadiths about Dajjal originated from Abu Hurairah.And Jabir bin Abdullah said that he heard of about Dajjal from Umar bin-Al-Khatab,which is obviously not from the prophet.
http://www.islammessage.com/bb/lofiversion/index.php/t601.html
You see how they are transmitted from a friend of a friend?
And still,no one has mentioned to me why Dajjal would be left out of the Qur'an, in which would be a great revelation and Qur'anic prophecy of the Qur'an. And I am talking about these kind of hadiths. Why do people keep mentioning about the prayer and wudu hadiths? I believe those...Those are hadiths in which are CUSTOMS and how to pray to God. And people prayed at the time of Prophet Mohammed and thus of course we took on these customs. These other mythical hadiths are not sunnah like prayers as they are proverbs, sayings and made up stories.
rami.haddad
21-10-05, 02:55 AM
The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.
There is also ridiculous hadiths out there like the one in which it says if a wife refuses to have intercourse with her husband when he asks,then she is doomed to hell. What a ridiculous piece of crock!And some people actually believe it because supposedly it is true.
Salam Aleikum brother,
First, I advise you to research the topic before making your strict judgements. In Islam you are not allowed to deny neither the Coran or the Sunnah. The Sunnah does not only consist of how to pray and how to do wudu, it consists of advises, situations and stories where lessons are to be taken from them.
The vast majority of the ulemas and the umma agree that there are strong hadiths and weak hadiths. Those strong hadiths are to be taken as you take the Coran the Word of Allah. To obey Allah you must obey Allah's Messengers (peace be upon them all).
Now if the vast majority of muslims around the world take and accept those hadiths, then on what basis do you deny them? What studies or basis is your denying based upon?
There are several theories on why the dejjal is not mentionned in the Coran. Again those reasons are discussed in the link in my signature. The discussion on the hereafter.
However again I warn you brother and this is a sincere warning, do research on the subject, you cannot deny the hadiths as you are doing, especially the hadiths that the majority of the ulemas have rated as strong.
Abdulhameed
21-10-05, 03:05 AM
I did not say I dismiss all hadiths. Those hadiths in talking about the way we do wudu and pray are customs and sunnah. Things about Dajjal and Gog and Magog are not customs, they are stories and "supposed" prophecies on what will happen on Judgement Day.
So you reject the statement of the prophet of Allah because they discuss things you feel are hard to believe
Ok,I'll give one example....The hadiths of how to pray and wudu are true to me because they are customs and a way taken from the Prophet in how to pray. Everyone prayed like him so that is I know it is true.
So what you're telling me now is that you pray the way you do, not based on any hadeeth but soley on the way others do?? What if everyone prayed by jumping up and down and they claimed the prophet did the same, then you would be forced to do the same. Does not everyone believe in the authenticty of hadeeth and the existence of the dajjal, so by the same vein , follow everyone. What I want to know is, how do you know the way you pray is taken from the prophet?? There are many sects which pray their own way, yet each claims to follow the prophet.
As for hadiths on Dajjal and those other mythical stories...I will not believe them because there is no way why I should believe them. It is only where it is said that they heard it from the Prophet. So it is hearsay. As I have mentioned before of why the Dajjal one is fake.Here is a repeat of what I wrote.Usually, the hadiths also...They are said to have been said by the Prophet by MANY of the Prophet's friends. The Dajjal hadith was said through only ONE friend of the Prophet who supposedly heard it. The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.
Here is where you make a very broad generalization. A hadeeth is not judged soley on the quantity of narrators but the quality.
[/quote]
There is also ridiculous hadiths out there like the one in which it says if a wife refuses to have intercourse with her husband when he asks,then she is doomed to hell. What a ridiculous piece of crock!And some people actually believe it because supposedly it is true.
What do you base this on? It is not enough that you feel aversion to this that it is automatically fake and fabricated. Do not let your emotions blind you to the science of hadeeth. IF something does not appeal to you, do not dismiss it out of hand.
So if you people believe most of these hadiths with mythical stories like Dajjal and Magog and Gog then how come you don't believe other things that people said they researched very well and say are true?What do you base these hadiths to be true on?Just because someone collected and is deemed a scholar?How can anyone assure the reliability and authenticity of these mythical hadiths?They even sound ridiculous!Dajjal chained on an island?Gog and Magog digging in earth?I guess Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are real too.
Again you are blinded by your emotions sister, just because something may sound ridiculous is not enough to qualify it as a fake. Do research do not dismiss everything out of hand which is what you seem to be doing. The hadeeths are based to be true based on many conditions most of which im not qualified to talk about, one of which is the quality of the narrators. IF you want to verify them, learn the science of hadeeth, and you will know if it is fake or not. Do not just dismiss them and be careful of what you say. You mock the prophet and the revelation of Allah by comparing it to the lies of the kuffar.
The hadiths about Dajjal originated from Abu Hurairah.And Jabir bin Abdullah said that he heard of about Dajjal from Umar bin-Al-Khatab,which is obviously not from the prophet.
http://www.islammessage.com/bb/lofiversion/index.php/t601.html
You see how they are transmitted from a friend of a friend?
How do you know that this is not from the prophet, on what basis besides the number of companions who narrate about hte dajjal ( which you are wrong about) do you base this on?
Narrated Asma:
I came to 'Aisha while she was praying, and said to her, "What has happened to the people?" She pointed out towards the sky. (I looked towards the mosque), and saw the people offering the prayer. Aisha said, "Subhan Allah." I said to her, "Is there a sign?" She nodded with her head meaning, "Yes." I, too, then stood (for the prayer of eclipse) till I became (nearly) unconscious and later on I poured water on my head. After the prayer, the Prophet praised and glorified Allah and then said,
"Just now at this place I have seen what I have never seen before, including Paradise and Hell. No doubt it has been inspired to me that you will be put to trials in your graves and these trials will be like the trials of Masiah-ad-Dajjal or nearly like it (the sub narrator is not sure which expression Asma' used). You will be asked, 'What do you know about this man (the Prophet Muhammad)?' Then the faithful believer (or Asma' said a similar word) will reply, 'He is Muhammad Allah's Apostle who had come to us with clear evidences and guidance and so we accepted his teachings and followed him. And he is Muhammad.' And he will repeat it thrice. Then the angels will say to him, 'Sleep in peace as we have come to know that you were a faithful believer.' On the other hand, a hypocrite or a doubtful person will reply, 'I do not know, but I heard the people saying something and so I said it.' (the same). "
JUst one example out of many that all the hadeeths about the dajjal are narrated by two people. LIke I mentioned I know of atleast 117 others.
And still,no one has mentioned to me why Dajjal would be left out of the Qur'an, in which would be a great revelation and Qur'anic prophecy of the Qur'an.
Allah knows best. How can you question Allah and His messenger. Allah chose to leave alot of things out of the quran for which he left in the sunnah of his messenger, but i dont see you questioning that. YOu just base your ridicule on things which sound ridicuouls to you, Sister dont take islam in pieces take it all, or not at all.
And I am talking about these kind of hadiths. Why do people keep mentioning about the prayer and wudu hadiths? I believe those...Those are hadiths in which are CUSTOMS and how to pray to God. And people prayed at the time of Prophet Mohammed and thus of course we took on these customs.
[/quote]
WEll you how do you know that people, like the hadeeths you claim have not also been corrupted and have been praying wrong?? How do you know those customs, like the sayings of the prophet have not also been altered. The problem begins when you question one thing you question everything.
These other mythical hadiths are not sunnah like prayers as they are proverbs, sayings and made up stories.[/QUOTE]
Do not ridicule the prophet. Take the whole thing and as Allah says : enter into islam fully. and dont be like the people of the book that took part of the revelation whether it be in the holy books or in the sayings of the prophets and rejected part of it .TO conclude, islam is not a buffet to choose and pick what appeals to you. I hope I didnt offend oyu or seem like im ridiculing you but if i came across that way, i sincerely apologize.
PS
THe salah which youpractise mentions to seek protection from the dajjal ( which you deem a fairy tale) in the tashahud. If the salah is acceptable so should hte dajjal. If you disbelieve in the dajjal, thne you should also believe that the salah is wrong, and thats gonna lead into a spiral of rejection and maybe kufr or nifaaq so be ware my sister.
.: Rashid :.
21-10-05, 05:03 AM
Give up on her...by arguing, I think you're only making her doubts worse :) I don't think she realises the magnitude of her denial...
May Allah guide the Ummah. Ameen.
-Rashid
Neyzen
21-10-05, 09:03 AM
lets go bermuda triangle to kill dajjal then :D
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 05:03 PM
Salam Aleikum brother,
First, I advise you to research the topic before making your strict judgements. In Islam you are not allowed to deny neither the Coran or the Sunnah. The Sunnah does not only consist of how to pray and how to do wudu, it consists of advises, situations and stories where lessons are to be taken from them.
It is sister by the way. :) I have had to point that out so many times.Do I sound like a man?*lol*
First off, I researched this that is why I do not believe the Dajjal hadiths. I will not go and believe ANYTHING just because it is said it is researched ad that means that it is authentic. ANYONE could say that about their work.
WHERE did I said I denied the Qur'an?I am showing everyone what no one has proven to me to be wrong, that Dajjal is NOT mentioned in the Qur'an.Some people will believe ALL the hadiths. Only a certain few are probably true and real.But ones of Dajjal,Gog and Magog, nope I will not believe those because they are ridiculous.
The vast majority of the ulemas and the umma agree that there are strong hadiths and weak hadiths. Those strong hadiths are to be taken as you take the Coran the Word of Allah. To obey Allah you must obey Allah's Messengers (peace be upon them all).
Why should I take the hadiths considered to be "strong" as the same weight as the Qur'an???
The Qur'an is our holy book...the hadiths are not. I am sure some hadiths are infact real, but I believe most are not. I am not going to follow something which has been interpreted and misquoted and mistreated by religious scholars. They disagree with each other to this day. When you have people researching and interpreting things their way, obviously what they find will be their OWN opinion and biases and research about it which can be different from another. That is why some hadiths are considered weak or strong.
The Holy Qur'an claims legitimacy for itself and within itself. Who are self-made priests, or religious leaders to take only their word for hadiths?How do I know that they did not misinterpret and misquote the Book of God for personal gain?
As these following surahs imply...
“'Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?'” Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt." (The Message 6:116)
"Say: 'Which is the greatest testimony?' Say: 'God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Quran that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!' Say: 'I do not bear witness!' Say: 'He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!'” (The Message 6:21)
"And We have come to them with a Scripture which We have detailed with knowledge; a guide and a mercy to those who believe." (The Message 7:52)
"We have revealed to you the Scripture with truth that you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you, and do not be an advocate for the treacherous. " (The Message 4:105)
"And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Scripture as a clarification for all things, and a guide and mercy and good tidings to those who have surrendered." (The Message 16:90)
"And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute." (The Message 5:51)
Now if the vast majority of muslims around the world take and accept those hadiths, then on what basis do you deny them? What studies or basis is your denying based upon?
Millions of followers out there follow Christianity and hadiths of that religion-same with Judaism,Buddhism,etc...Does that mean because millions follow it I have to?The relationship between God and I is only between Him and I,and no one else can interfere in it. I just cannot believe some of you are so judgemental and are claiming that what I am doing is "un-Islamic" because I do not follow most of the hadiths,or some mythical hadith like the one about Dajjal. Who is ANYONE to judge me and tell me it is "un-Islamic"? Only Allah can be the judge of that.
There are several theories on why the dejjal is not mentionned in the Coran. Again those reasons are discussed in the link in my signature. The discussion on the hereafter.
Well,these are just "theories" as you have stated. I believe that the Qur'an is detailed and fulfilled itself and complete in itself. That is why Dajjal is not mentioned there, because it has no basis in which Allah would not put in the Qur'an a great tribulation of such magnitude as that one. You read ALL the other signs he mentioned in the Qur'an and then Dajjal would be left out? That makes no sense.
However again I warn you brother and this is a sincere warning, do research on the subject, you cannot deny the hadiths as you are doing, especially the hadiths that the majority of the ulemas have rated as strong.
As I have stated before,I have researched them and that is the conclusion I came to.Yes,I can deny them...I will not believe anything just because it is said they are authentic because some religious scholars interpret them to be. Then that means we should believe in Darwinism, or other things because they are said to have been researched and to be authentic.
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 05:37 PM
So you reject the statement of the prophet of Allah because they discuss things you feel are hard to believe
Statements that religious scholars felt were real?
I am not rejecting statements of the Prophet....I follow the Qur'an and the Prophets teachings and what he has revealed through the Qur'an being revealed through him in which is in the Holy Book itself.Not things that are said to be true by some religious scholars because of their research and interpretation. That is TWO different things.
As I have clearly stated...Some hadiths can be real,but I believe most of them are hearsay such as the ones about Gog and Magog and Dajjal.
So what you're telling me now is that you pray the way you do, not based on any hadeeth but soley on the way others do?? What if everyone prayed by jumping up and down and they claimed the prophet did the same, then you would be forced to do the same. Does not everyone believe in the authenticty of hadeeth and the existence of the dajjal, so by the same vein , follow everyone. What I want to know is, how do you know the way you pray is taken from the prophet?? There are many sects which pray their own way, yet each claims to follow the prophet.
That is the sunnah and that is what I pray as the same as the Prophet because it is clear to me that is what we did because it has been a custom that has been taken from him as the sunnah implies. These sunnah are stating what to do when we pray...And yes,different sects pray different ways in Islam..We are not to judge which one is right.I am sure as long as you pray God accepts that.
So just because religious scholars have implied some of hadiths about Dajjal to be true, then you should believe. As you have given with your example, if some religious scholar came and said,and others agreed with him,that you have drink water 8 cups a day then it means FOR SURE it is authentic and that the prophet said it?
Millions of people around the world follow a certain lifestyle and certain aspects of their beliefs,it doesn't I have to. If millions jump off a bridge because they believe their Messiah told them to, doesn't mean I will believe in it too.
As I stated to the other man I replied to, the relationship between me and God is only between Him and I and no one can interfere in it. HE is my judge and no one else.
Here is where you make a very broad generalization. A hadeeth is not judged soley on the quantity of narrators but the quality.
Quality?and what does that prove?I'd rather believe something in which MANY people have witnessed or heard than one person who claims he did.
What do you base this on? It is not enough that you feel aversion to this that it is automatically fake and fabricated. Do not let your emotions blind you to the science of hadeeth. IF something does not appeal to you, do not dismiss it out of hand.
Feel?So you do not believe the hadiths based on your feelings of trusting these religious scholars in concluding they are real?
Nope,it is not what about if it does not appeal to me...Isi t about knowing for myself and seeing the science if something is real or not. If the sky is blue I cannot not go ahead and believe it because I wish the sky were the colour of pink.
Why I do not believe the Dajjal hadiths is because he is not mentioned ONCE in the Qur'an in which a great tribulation about Judgement Day of that magnitude would be placed in the Qur'an. A Qur'anic prophecy of that magnitude would be in the Qur'an because the Qur'an is complete, detailed and fulfilled in itself.
Again you are blinded by your emotions sister, just because something may sound ridiculous is not enough to qualify it as a fake. Do research do not dismiss everything out of hand which is what you seem to be doing. The hadeeths are based to be true based on many conditions most of which im not qualified to talk about, one of which is the quality of the narrators. IF you want to verify them, learn the science of hadeeth, and you will know if it is fake or not. Do not just dismiss them and be careful of what you say. You mock the prophet and the revelation of Allah by comparing it to the lies of the kuffar.
As I have explained above why I do not believ the Dajal hadith which is not based on feelings.
Secondly, nope I am NOT mocking the prophet. How am I mocking the prophet?BEcause I am not believing a hadith that is said to be heard from a friend who heard it fro mthe Prophet or someone who heard it from Aisha herself?Nope. I'll stick the Qur'an about the signs of Judgement Day because as I have said the Qur'an is complete,detailed and fulfilled in itself.
How do you know that this is not from the prophet, on what basis besides the number of companions who narrate about hte dajjal ( which you are wrong about) do you base this one?
Again,anyone and everyone could have said they heard it from Aisha or the prophet, it doesn't mean it is true. The Qur'an talks about everything of what will happen on Judgement Day.
Allah knows best. How can you question Allah and His messenger. Allah chose to leave alot of things out of the quran for which he left in the sunnah of his messenger, but i dont see you questioning that. YOu just base your ridicule on things which sound ridicuouls to you, Sister dont take islam in pieces take it all, or not at all.
God left NOTHING out of the Qur'an. He put EVERYTHING in there that we need to know as these surahs imply:
“'Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?'” Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt." (The Message 6:116)
"And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Scripture as a clarification for all things, and a guide and mercy and good tidings to those who have surrendered." (The Message 16:90)
Are you refuting these surahs in which it claims the Qur'an is complete,detailed and fulfilled in itself? A lot of these religious scholars base their findings on their OWN interpretations which can be different from someone else's. That is why not all religious scholars agree and disagree on many issues.
Allah DOES know best and is the knower of all things and he'd mention Dajjal and put it in the Qur'an wth a tribulation about Judgement Day of that magnitude.
WEll you how do you know that people, like the hadeeths you claim have not also been corrupted and have been praying wrong?? How do you know those customs, like the sayings of the prophet have not also been altered. The problem begins when you question one thing you question everything.
I explained that in my previous replies.
And you can QUESTION.There is nothing wrong with that as questionning is what reinforces your beliefs and gives you more wisdom.
Do not ridicule the prophet. Take the whole thing and as Allah says : enter into islam fully. and dont be like the people of the book that took part of the revelation whether it be in the holy books or in the sayings of the prophets and rejected part of it .TO conclude, islam is not a buffet to choose and pick what appeals to you. I hope I didnt offend oyu or seem like im ridiculing you but if i came across that way, i sincerely apologize.
PS
THe salah which youpractise mentions to seek protection from the dajjal ( which you deem a fairy tale) in the tashahud. If the salah is acceptable so should hte dajjal. If you disbelieve in the dajjal, thne you should also believe that the salah is wrong, and thats gonna lead into a spiral of rejection and maybe kufr or nifaaq so be ware my sister.
Again,I am not ridiculing the prophet. Everything else you mention I addressed it previously.
And when I pray I do NOT even mention Dajjal's name and it is not asking to seek protection from Dajjal.
I am sunni,so maybe you are from a different sect and seek protection from Dajjal in your prayers.
Mujaheedah
21-10-05, 05:59 PM
maybe you should rethink what you are then because being sunni means you follow the quran and sunnah and where else do you get the sunah from other than from hadeeths?
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 06:07 PM
I also wanted to add...For those who believe God knows best and is all knowing,then why do we need another source of law BESIDES the Qur'an???
Would anyone like to refute these surahs???
"..........We did not leave ANYTHING out of this book." 6:38
"The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." 6:115
"Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt." 6:114, See also, 7:52, 11:1, 41:3, 10:37 and 12:111
"Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near?Which HADITH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?" 7:185
(God has even implied here that the Qur'an is the BEST hadith and should be the only hadith)
"O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by God, and do not agress; God dislikes the aggressors." 5:87
"Say, "Did you note how God sends down to you all kinds of provisions, then you render some of them unlawful, and some lawful?" Say, "Did God give you permission to do this? Or, do you fabricate lies and attribute them to God?" 10:59
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." 17:36
(So,you should verify it for yourself!What the Qur'an means to you is what it means to you.You can take your interpretation as your word from what you read from the Qur'an. As I have mentioned the relationship between you and God is only between you and Him and no one else should interfere in it. Why take the word of religious scholars when God has told us to verify it for YOURSELF and you should take the Qur'an as it means to YOU. So who are the others in here telling me I am mocking the word of the prophet when infact they believe the findings of others?I will stick to believe what the Qur'an means to ME as God has said to verify it for myself since he gave me the ability to.)
And remember no one can judge you except for God himself.
Peace be upon all of you.
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 06:09 PM
maybe you should rethink what you are then because being sunni means you follow the quran and sunnah and where else do you get the sunah from other than from hadeeths?
I've been raised as Sunni cause that is what my parents have raised me. But I have been thinking about that lately. There should be no sects in Islam. I get confused sometimes about it.
Maybe I should refer myself as to not sunni,shia or anything else but just as a Muslim?
Mujaheedah
21-10-05, 06:14 PM
yea i think there are too many sects also but just to remind you again being a mulsim als means following the ways of the prophet, when u make shahadah it means i bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammed(saw) is his messenger, The prophet was sent as an teacher to mankind, to teach us how to live the right way, we learn this from the hadeeth which were recorded by his close freinds and safely passed down generations intact, sister we can only peruade one so much the rest is up to you to think about what were trying to say. Inshaalah sooner rather than later you will realise the truth in what were trying to tell you because there is no way you can live according to the rules of Islam without going according to the guidlines of the hadeeth, And Allah guides whom he wills
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 06:17 PM
And I just wanted to add,it is unbelievable how sometimes Muslims disappoint. Some of them can be the most judgemental about others when GOD should and can be our only judge.
It is unbelievable how some others in here have been saying I am mocking the Prophet because I don't have the same certain beliefs as they do about the hadiths. Who are these people to imply this and judge me in this way?Allah only can.
I have never pointed out to others and told them they are mocking the prophet. I just have pointed out to why do they believe in these hadiths that I consider to be crap and a crock of nonsense. But if you believe in them, who am I to tell you, you are mocking the prophet and you are wrong?
I just came in here for a discussion in knowing why you believs these hadiths and wanted to have a respectful discussion about the Dajjal and Gog and Magog hadiths and show my point of view on why I disagree with them. We may all have different points of views but we should not tell each other who is right and who is wrong for only God is the judge of that.
Sorry to say that I have been dissappointed.
I am a Muslim and none of words can change that. I love Allah and He knows.He knows i am grateful for him. That is all that counts.
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 06:34 PM
yea i think there are too many sects also but just to remind you again being a mulsim als means following the ways of the prophet, when u make shahadah it means i bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammed(saw) is his messenger, The prophet was sent as an teacher to mankind, to teach us how to live the right way, we learn this from the hadeeth which were recorded by his close freinds and safely passed down generations intact, sister we can only peruade one so much the rest is up to you to think about what were trying to say. Inshaalah sooner rather than later you will realise the truth in what were trying to tell you because there is no way you can live according to the rules of Islam without going according to the guidlines of the hadeeth, And Allah guides whom he wills
Being a Muslim means believing in Allah and following his message.
I have explained MANY times why I don't take a lot of the hadiths seriously. And that does not make me any less of a Muslim than anyone else who wants to believe in hadiths.
Yes,I,of course believe in the Prophet Mohammed..and he is the messenger of God and a prophet just like the shahadah implies and he is the messenger of God just like ALL the other prophets.
And I agree with this stance on Prophet Mohammed...
What is so sadly neglected is that the most critical aspects of the messenger’s life have been recorded and captured in the most detailed manner…not in the books of Hadith or tradition…but in the Holy Book itself.
...
Muhammed is represented only by the Quran. The Prophet Muhammed was the last Prophet and a messenger of God (33:40). He was not the messenger of God because of who he (Muhammed) was, but because he was given the Quran (the message) to deliver to the world. The religion of Islam is a religion of God, not about Muhammed, who was blessed by God with the delivery of the message of the Quran. He did not have an agenda of his own.
His job was to deliver to the world what God was giving him, the Quran. See 42:48, 13:40, 5:99-100, Muhammed cannot prohibit things, or make lawful things on his own. When he tried to do that God admonished him publicly, 66:1, 66:1 reminds us that God is the only ONE to prohibit or make things lawful.
So that is MY belief on it....And no one else can judge me on my part because of it. Let Allah be my judge.
I respect others and this is MY belief so who is anyone to degrade me for it?
Mujaheedah
21-10-05, 06:44 PM
His job was to deliver to the world what God was giving him, the Quran. See 42:48, 13:40, 5:99-100, Muhammed cannot prohibit things, or make lawful things on his own. When he tried to do that God admonished him publicly, 66:1, 66:1 reminds us that God is the only ONE to prohibit or make things lawful. ?
subhanallah, of course Allah is the only one who could prohibit things or make them lawful, and the prophet (saw) was the best of manking an example for use to follow, and yes you do follow the quran and also the hadeeth, im pretty sure without following the hadeeth also there is no way you can live your life following the rules that we are suposed to follow. Sister if you do not believe in these signs of the day of judgement i can only tell you of the prophet (Saw)'s warning of the dajjal and the yagug and magug and all the others, again the rest is up to you but this time will come as promised by Allah (swt) May Allah guide us all closer to the right path.
Mujaheedah
21-10-05, 06:45 PM
and yes Allah alone can judge of for our actions and he will on the day of yawm al qiyamat.
Abdulhameed
21-10-05, 09:41 PM
I also wanted to add...For those who believe God knows best and is all knowing,then why do we need another source of law BESIDES the Qur'an???
"But nay, by thy Lord, they will not believe (in truth) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission. "
4:65
Would anyone like to refute these surahs???
"..........We did not leave ANYTHING out of this book." 6:38
[quote]
"The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." 6:115
This first verse does not speak about the quran we have but about the luh al mahfouz in which Allah has written everything. Obviously the quran does not include every single thing. It tells us most things we need to know in order to be successful and refers the rest to the sunnah as Allah the most wise has said Himself to follow the prophet:
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.
33:21
"Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt." 6:114, See also, 7:52, 11:1, 41:3, 10:37 and 12:111
"Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near?Which HADITH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?" 7:185
(God has even implied here that the Qur'an is the BEST hadith and should be the only hadith)
"O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by God, and do not agress; God dislikes the aggressors." 5:87
"Say, "Did you note how God sends down to you all kinds of provisions, then you render some of them unlawful, and some lawful?" Say, "Did God give you permission to do this? Or, do you fabricate lies and attribute them to God?" 10:59
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." 17:36
(So,you should verify it for yourself!What the Qur'an means to you is what it means to you.You can take your interpretation as your word from what you read from the Qur'an. As I have mentioned the relationship between you and God is only between you and Him and no one else should interfere in it. Why take the word of religious scholars when God has told us to verify it for YOURSELF and you should take the Qur'an as it means to YOU. So who are the others in here telling me I am mocking the word of the prophet when infact they believe the findings of others?I will stick to believe what the Qur'an means to ME as God has said to verify it for myself since he gave me the ability to.)
And remember no one can judge you except for God himself.
Peace be upon all of you.
PLease do not take the ayah out of context. The first verse does not speak about the quran we have but about the luh al mahfouz in which Allah has written everything. Obviously the quran does not include everything,. It tells us most things we need to know in order to be successful and refers the rest to the sunnah as Allah the most wise has said Himself to follow the prophet:
"But nay, by thy Lord, they will not believe (in truth) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission. "
4:65
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.
33:21
Say: Obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in His guidance).
33:22
And obey Allah and the messenger, that ye may find mercy
3:132
These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow, where such will dwell for ever. That will be the great success
4:13
And they say: We believe in Allah and the messenger, and we obey; then after that a faction of them turn away. Such are not believers.
24:47
The saying of (all true) believers when they appeal unto Allah and His messenger to judge between them is only that they say: We hear and we obey. And such are the successful
24:51
By the Star when it setteth Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired.
53:1-4
First of all hadith in ayah 7 :185 does not mean the hadeeths of the prophet as the other verses say to obey Allah and His messenger.
How do you obey The prophet, if not through following his sunnah?How do you apply the sunnah without hadeeth?
If you reject all hadeeth, you reject the prophets sunnah, if you reject the sunnah you reject Allahs command.
Are you refuting these surahs in which it claims the Qur'an is complete,detailed and fulfilled in itself
Ofcourse not since the quran told us to obey the messenger several times and the hadeeth is the vehicle for doing it.
Finally, the statement that "What the Qur'an means to you is what it means to you.You can take your interpretation as your word from what you read from the Qur'an." is a very dangerous one. THis is what leads to division and this is not acceptable to Allah as He has specifically mentioned the example of the prophet as one that is acceptable to him and also said that he has completed your faith. IF everyone took the quran as their own interpreation there would be 1.5 billion interperations of islam today. Therefore if you bring anything after that that the prophet did not apply it is not acceptable to Allah.
TO conclude, wallahi my intention was not to insult you or to look down on you, but to try to correct your erro to the best of my ability. If I have offended you , I humbly apologize. But I find it more than a little irritating when something which is an established belief in islam is constantly called a fairy tale, or a load of crock or such. If you do not believe do not offend and insult the majority of your muslim brethrin or harm yourself indirectly by calling such statements in such a way.This will probably be my last post on this subject, so again I apologize if i have offended you and I pray that Allah guides us both to a way which is pleasing to Him, and that He make us amongst the successful.
Wasalamu ALaykum
Omar
21-10-05, 09:54 PM
Sister seeker inshaAllah I hope this might help you: http://www.whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3772&PN=1
It might contain answers to some of you questions, its worth a read.
~Soul~
22-10-05, 10:02 AM
lets go bermuda triangle to kill dajjal then :D
no1 can kill dajal except mahdi
Seeker_of_Truth
22-10-05, 06:08 PM
PLease do not take the ayah out of context. The first verse does not speak about the quran we have but about the luh al mahfouz in which Allah has written everything. Obviously the quran does not include everything,. It tells us most things we need to know in order to be successful and refers the rest to the sunnah as Allah the most wise has said Himself to follow the prophet:
Say: Obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in His guidance).
33:22
And obey Allah and the messenger, that ye may find mercy
3:132
These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow, where such will dwell for ever. That will be the great success
4:13
And they say: We believe in Allah and the messenger, and we obey; then after that a faction of them turn away. Such are not believers.
24:47
The saying of (all true) believers when they appeal unto Allah and His messenger to judge between them is only that they say: We hear and we obey. And such are the successful
24:51
By the Star when it setteth Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired.
53:1-4
First of all hadith in ayah 7 :185 does not mean the hadeeths of the prophet as the other verses say to obey Allah and His messenger.
How do you obey The prophet, if not through following his sunnah?How do you apply the sunnah without hadeeth?
If you reject all hadeeth, you reject the prophets sunnah, if you reject the sunnah you reject Allahs command.
Ofcourse not since the quran told us to obey the messenger several times and the hadeeth is the vehicle for doing it.
Finally, the statement that "What the Qur'an means to you is what it means to you.You can take your interpretation as your word from what you read from the Qur'an." is a very dangerous one. THis is what leads to division and this is not acceptable to Allah as He has specifically mentioned the example of the prophet as one that is acceptable to him and also said that he has completed your faith. IF everyone took the quran as their own interpreation there would be 1.5 billion interperations of islam today. Therefore if you bring anything after that that the prophet did not apply it is not acceptable to Allah.
TO conclude, wallahi my intention was not to insult you or to look down on you, but to try to correct your erro to the best of my ability. If I have offended you , I humbly apologize. But I find it more than a little irritating when something which is an established belief in islam is constantly called a fairy tale, or a load of crock or such. If you do not believe do not offend and insult the majority of your muslim brethrin or harm yourself indirectly by calling such statements in such a way.This will probably be my last post on this subject, so again I apologize if i have offended you and I pray that Allah guides us both to a way which is pleasing to Him, and that He make us amongst the successful.
Wasalamu ALaykum
I don't have as much time as to reply to all of that...I have assignments to take care of...I will just reply to the things that popped out to me.
Obviouly,me and you have different perceptions about this,and we'll just leave it to respect each other's opinions.
Just a reminder that the hadiths were first collected 200 years after Prophet Muhammed's death. Bukhari's are the ones most accepted and out of 600,000,he only picked to put in 7397 hadiths which were considered authentic to him.
Then how come this hadith is accepted by most Muslims as true?
"The prophet said:'Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Whoever wrote, must destroy it" (Muslim, Zuhd 72; Hanbel3/12,21,39)
There was a ban put on to not write hadiths for a centuries.
According to the history books of Islam, the ban on writing "Hadith" was only lifted some 80 years after the Prophet had passed away by Omar Bin Abdulaziz (the grandson of Omar Bin Al-Khatab). In fact, the irony of the matter is that Omar Bin al-Khatab himself was vehemently opposed to the writing of any religion revelations EXCEPT the Quran:
Omar Bin Al-Khatab is recorded as saying: 'I wanted to write the traditions (Sun'an), and I remembered a people who were before you, they wrote other books to follow and abandoned the book of GOD. And I will never, I swear, replace GOD's book with anything' (Reported by Jami' Al-Bayan 1/67)
As we mentioned before, within a short span of 200 years from the Prophet's death (only 130 years from the lifting of the ban) there were over 600,000 Hadith's floating around at the time of Bukhari which were all attributed to the Prophet. Bukhari himself admitted to spending nearly 40 years studying the Hadith's and could only verify the chain of transmission from 1.24% of the total!.
Obviously we have to obey the prophet and God. And if you do not believe most hadiths how is it that you are NOT obeying the prophet?What people tend to forget is that the most important aspects of the Prophet’s life have been recorded and captured in the most detailed manner…not in the books of Hadith or tradition…but in the Holy Book itself.
PaGaL~LaDo0
22-10-05, 06:11 PM
:eek: :confused: :banghead: :nervous:
Instead of discussing where the Dajjal is why dont we seek protection from Allah swt from Dajjal and pray that we are strong in iman incase he appears whilst we are alive.
Allah SWT knows best
innit man u gtta rd 1st 10 vrsez of surah kaf i tink iz dat rite?
SoulAsylum
22-10-05, 06:15 PM
innit man u gtta rd 1st 10 vrsez of surah kaf i tink iz dat rite?
Yeh thats rite Paagal :up:
PaGaL~LaDo0
22-10-05, 06:24 PM
:D i need 2 lrn dat inshAllah
Griffith
04-11-05, 01:33 PM
Wait a sec if the Dajjal is locked up right now, that means he is immortal, right? And is it possible to go to the Bermuda Triangle from Arabia in one month in a ship? And what about the kingdom (or throne) of the Jinns is on the Sea, is there a Hadith to confirm that?
dr8breed
25-09-07, 02:26 AM
blah....i think all of this bermuda triangle thing is crap....why should u believe in such stuffs rather then pray and spend your time more in believing that allah is there and he is all mighty....Is there prove that dajjal is there living in the bermuda triangle, chained and scratching his armpits...lol.....how bout the planes and ships crash that had been found? why dont dajjal just eat them up...dont waste your precious time on this mindsets....even if it's true we can change everything....try pulling and convincing other people to join us muslimin and muslimat...try making their eyes open...i know its hard but we can work together...god had bring down al'quran for us for a reason....allah make this world not perfect but he make us humans to make it perfect....dont tell me you guys are gonna just sit there doing nothing and let dajjal come to you....do not fear nothing except allah whom had made us and he can take our life's away anytime.....:) :rolleyes:
dr8breed
25-09-07, 02:32 AM
Wait a sec if the Dajjal is locked up right now, that means he is immortal, right? And is it possible to go to the Bermuda Triangle from Arabia in one month in a ship? And what about the kingdom (or throne) of the Jinns is on the Sea, is there a Hadith to confirm that?
bulls*it actually...even if his immortal there's nothing he can do to stop allah...god is always fair...if what you guys said is true then before anything happen we can prevent it.....god made dajjal immortal and he can take dajjal away from being immortal.....
Fadila
25-09-07, 02:59 AM
Some of the Chinese, b/c there are alot of muslims in China!
Tuesday, August 18, 2009
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